SPEAKER_00 0:00

What it do, what it do, it's your boy Andrew Sproul, and you're tapped into the middle of the fence. Today's conversation is all about transformation. My guest, Hermond Palacio, came to New York from Buenos Aires as a teenager and has spent his life constantly evolving. From technology and web design to photography, music, and stage design, while also transforming personally through sobriety, meditation, and a deeper understanding of himself. We talk about consciousness, technology, getting outside your comfort zone, and why sometimes you have to go into the hole to get out of the hole. Let's get into it. What it do, what it do. It's your boy Andre Spruel, and you're tuning in to Middle of the Fence podcast. And today we have a very special guest with us, Mr. Herman Palacio. Thank you so much for joining us today. Gracias. Of course, of course. I'm very excited to bring this episode uh to you guys. And um, and yeah, guys, just don't underestimate the power of conversation and any interaction that you can have in your life. So just want to put that out there. And uh, if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's do it. Let's go, let's do it. Uh, so for those that don't know, uh you were born in Argentina. I was in Buenos Aires, yeah. Let's go, let's go. Shout out to Argentina one time. And then you moved to the States.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I moved to the States like in 1989. I moved with my parents and my sister. So actually, we moved here because my parents weren't really happy with what was happening with the politics moment. And so they try to see the future different, and they moved here. So I'm here since like 1989. Since 1989. Yeah, I was a teenager at that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah. What was uh what would you say were some of the biggest cultural differences or like shock factors? Because obviously the way the US was was probably shown in TV and movies was much different compared to like once you got here.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

It was the MTV time, like yeah, I was a teenager and like I was like coming out from my high school and coming here, but like I was really happy for me, it was like a movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, it's still a movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I still like walking the street, and like I seen things changing all the time, but like, yeah, for I was really happy or what happened into Argentina, aside my parents that were were really happy about it. I was happy and so.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, and I find it interesting that you mentioned how the political climate in Argentina was why you and your family moved to the States in the first place, because uh, for my family, that's how it was, because my grandfather, who's Argentinian, uh, for those that don't, I mean, if you if you tune to this program, you know that I'm uh half black and half Argentinian. Uh, but that was the reason why he came to this country, because uh during La Guerra Sucia, the dirty war, uh during the height of that, he saw how that was going out, and he didn't wanna he didn't see eye to eye with either side, the left side or the right side. And I believe one of them wanted him to like fight as like a soldier, and instead he was like, fuck that. He's like, I like I like I don't believe in this shit. So he took his family and just like you know, just took a giant risk and moved everyone to this country, yeah. Yeah, so uh from your parents, for like from your perspective and and seeing the leap that like your parents made to like make that brave choice to move to a different country and start a new life. What would you say was like the biggest lesson or like some of the biggest things that you took from them by taking that big leap that they took, so then you can do the same in your life?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

And so you mean the lesson that I learned from them when they did this? Yeah, yeah, like yeah, like go and do whatever you want. Because actually, my parents they always wanted to come to this country. They were like since I remember, I think since they were they got married, they were thinking of her coming to the States. And they did it, even though they were like over 40s and they have the balls to do it, and like so. If you have like an idea or you want to do something, do it. Doesn't matter what age, you know. You always have to don't leave like the spine, keep it in your heart, you have to take it out, even if like you think it's the most stupid thing, just do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah, I really like that. I really like that, and then obviously, you know, like with growing up uh as a teenager and then getting into your um grown-up years, yeah, let's say, uh, what would you say were some of the biggest lessons that you learned during like that time, like from making that transition as like a you know, bright-eyed teenager coming here from Argentina and then actually going through through life and some of the things that it's taught you.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I think the biggest lesson is like just like understand that you you're gonna do good and bad things, like and you learn from that. So whatever you do, like when you're young, it's gonna be like the language of your future. You know, like even though like I know being a teenager in New York in the 90s, like uh going to like you can imagine, and and you learn from the good and the bad things. So I'm very happy. Like you have to fuck that sometimes. Yeah. You definitely have to. I start thinking about like all the like giving you examples of things, but it's like so obvious.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So yeah, it's I mean, it's like some of the yeah, like those obvious ones that are usually like related to like partying and doing dumb dumb stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

If I cross the line, I I'm gonna go too personal and like it's so understandable. Just with my eyes, you guys like, yeah, like uh yeah, yeah, yeah. But now it's different. Like now I think like you it's like now I'm like fifty over fifties, and you have to keep discipline. The best you do for your body is the best for your soul, like your body is your temple. So it's like you but you learn from that, you have to cross all that, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Absolutely. And from the conversations, and in line with that, from the conversations that we've had, you mentioned how you've incorporated practices like meditating, right? And being sober for what eight, eight years.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

I've been so sober, yeah, almost eight years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So you mind uh just just sharing a little bit about like what got you to that to that point of wanting to practice uh meditation and then ultimately just saying no and living the sober life and how that's helped you today.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Like like I I know that like people always try to like get in sober or like quit alcohol or maybe like being vegan and things like that. But like that comes for like if you somebody force you, it's really hard. Like that has to come from your conscience. If you really do it like that, like you really like like like you have to really want it to be that because if you don't do it like that, you're trying to show it, do it, do it, or show it to somebody else. It's not for you. But if you really do it for you, like it's so easy. Like, I don't know, some day just it clicks in your head, like when you're if your conscience calls you, it's like I don't think it's for everybody because sometimes I think like some people like should keep drinking, but like uh but it's true, it's not for everybody, everybody have different life like here, but we are crossing different dimensions. You're in one dimension, I mean another dimension, even we are in the same space, but like you know, like learn to don't judge people because it does like maybe that people that's drinking right now is crossing that experience that is gonna be better for him in the future, so yeah, and I love what you said right there.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Don't judge people, yeah, because that's what this podcast is all about, yeah. I mean, because I feel like well, not feel like so. Oftentimes, a lot of people will see someone say walking down the street or on TV or whatever the case may be, and just because of how they look and how they're dressed and how they talk, it's like people are already quick to judge. And it's just like, bro, you don't even know my story, you know? And it's just like I and that's like the point. Like, I like I want people to do that less. And I feel like that just comes from once you actually have a strong sense of understanding of who you are and you know what you want out of out of life, what serves your highest purpose and all that. I feel like when you reach that kind of state, then you're not you're gonna not be as judgmental towards towards people because I because like I feel like you'll have more empathy. Would you like do you do you see eye to eye with that? Yeah, totally, totally, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

But Santas, like like you Santas, like you can be like a lot of people can do, be doing all that meditation, like um, your house is like a temple, but the thing is going outside. That's when you're really using it, you know what I mean? Your meditation and things like that, because like work with your emotions, like going outside, even though you are the most perfect mediter people in the world, you're outside, like it'd be more in New York here, it's just like uh it could be hell, and but here actually we live in the paradise. But that's what when you like find your conscious, you realize that you're living in paradise here.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

That's yeah, and I mean getting like very on like a deep like spiritual level, but yeah, like you always hear stuff about like feeding the subconscious mind and and things that you can do, and and we've spoken about like how like believing in a higher power and being faith, faith, faith-driven and and all that, it's important and what works, whatever works best for you as an individual, you know. But the subconscious side of things is important because that's what really creates your reality, just more so from the sense, like for me personally, like the subconscious side of things, like that was something that I wasn't really I didn't I wasn't aware of and how important it was, you know, and uh yes, true.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Yes, some people like that's in half conscious, they have conscious, but they don't they don't see it because actually it's invisible, but you have to feel it. That's when like people say, like uh, it could be example, like for example, when I stop drinking, people say, like uh, oh you find Jesus. No, no, this is not about Jesus, you know, it's about me, but it's it's something it's like a magic that's is around and you feel it, you know what I mean? And if you keep doing it, you're gonna feel it more because sometimes like people don't think of being sober. Like for me, being sober is like being more pure, more nature. You're going like when you're you being more perfect, you're not gonna be perfect, but there's a big power of being sober, like uh you have you get a big devolution of it, you get different powers, you get a you're a superhuman.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Do you do you think that being sober also allows you to be more present?

SPEAKER_02 11:52

You have to be present all the time, but that doesn't mean if you're sober you're better than other people, you know, it's just completely different because sometimes they think like, oh, if you don't drink and you're like clean and you do yoga, things like that. It doesn't this got nothing to do with better being better people because there's people who do yoga and meditation and they're really bad people, you know. And that's got nothing to do when you make things like that. But like, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to say like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Like if you drink or or or take any substances, then you're a bad person. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

If you do that, enjoy it. Don't feel bad. No, everything you do in the present, enjoy. Even like if you had taken an acid tonight, enjoy it, man. Go out and dance, put some makeup and fucking like have a blast. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna be here and meditate. No, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

And it just goes to the individuality and who you are, like authentically, yeah, you know, because actually, in so yeah, it's 2026. Last year, I went the whole year without drinking uh just to challenge myself because I was like, hey, like I'm really, I really want to lock in on getting healthy, being ultra focused on launching this podcast and just bettering my life. And I knew that it would be a sacrifice for me to because uh, you know, like most people, I was underage drinking. So it was just like it was, it just, it was just not that like uh not that it stemmed from like, okay, I have a problem and I need to fix this kind of thing, but just more so that it became such an accepted part of my lifestyle that I was like, if I just make this change, like what are the results that can come from it? Because I always hear about just like you said, like doing the meditation, the working out, the, you know, all those mindful ways to like practice and and all that, but also too, like the power of removing a habit that you once had or just cutting out something that that wasn't serving you, you know, like I will say that last year was arguably the best year of my life, you know, just because from like a from like a personal standpoint, because A, I was like, you did it, man. I was like, you did it, yeah, you know, and then from from there, like it just made me just see things more and it and it did kind of feel like a power, just like how you were talking about, you know, like as as far as just like, okay, now now when I'm out in social settings, I'm more aware. And it's like, okay, wow, like there's certain settings that I was in that I was just being here because everyone else was drinking and dancing and having fun, but I don't even like anyone in here. You know, so um I definitely would encourage it too. Like, even if it's not like a full-blown lifestyle thing to go sober to, at least try it for a year. Nice. Yeah, I mean, or just like some time to experiment, you know. Like, I like I definitely I like I definitely see that eye.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, you have to have transformation, and nobody's gonna receive like a gold medal after you leave, like, oh, you didn't drink for 40 years, um, you're you know, no, no, it's just it's good to be transformating. Um now I'm drinking, maybe I'm not gonna be, you know what it depends, um, but definitely I learned something out of it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

It's like yeah, yeah, because we're always growing and evolving.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah, we know nothing, but the only thing we know, nothing is forever. So it's like so that's the only thing I'm kind of sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, get that tattoo, right? Nothing is forever.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Nothing forever, and we are gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So from a professional background, uh, you have a strong background in technology because that's how you uh started out, and now you work in stage uh design and you do the really cool lights. So uh you know, I've seen some of your work. So great, great job with that. So for anyone that goes to live events, uh especially concerts, you know, like when you see all those all those lights going going crazy that make their artists look really, really cool and all that, Herman is one of the people that does that. So just want to shout him out with that. So uh do you mind just uh giving the people a little bit of background of your uh technology journey and how it led you to your uh to the uh profession that that you're in now?

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Uh yeah, actually like with technology, really like start working. I start more like uh at the end of the 90s. Um I started doing like web design um with coding when there was like there wasn't like temples at uh like templates at that time, so you have to do a website with coding and stuff like that. It was really harder, much harder than now because now you do a click and you you do the website in five minutes. Copy and paste and it just doesn't fully. I was uh that's how I started doing that, and then I realized that I need a photographer, and then I started in photography with start with Photoshop. Then like at that time, technology changed so much in 20 years, so I went from like web designer from photographer from photographer to stage designer. So I have to like always be changing, transformating my my learning because like you have to get a different job because like not now, for example, like 20 years ago, my job that I thought I was like I was like secure for not life, but like for certain time, it's chasing five years completely, even with my like social media, things like that. You don't really need a website, things like that. Yeah, that's really I'm more in New York, or in New York like that, which is crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

No, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

And obviously, with the state of technology these days, do you think we're more in like a golden age kind of situation, or do you think we're more in like a doomsday type of uh type of uh maybe we are in the golden age, but like uh the also we are in the bullshit age because like that everybody's trying to tell you something or scare you, and this is not golden, it's bullshit, you know, like what have been happening with AI, like so. Yeah, with all these like AI. Everything is happening so fast and everything, but it's not it's not trying to scare you, but like it's just trying to say you something, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, because even like and I was way too young to uh remember this, but I'm aware of it. Uh the Y2K era. Yeah, I only I only know about it from being a wrestling fan and Chris Jericho, that was his getup. Uh, but anyway, he wasn't like but like but like the Y2K era, even something like that, where it was like, all right, this is something that oh my gosh, the world is gonna end because of, you know, like it's like I always I always feel like it's like the world's gonna end because of this happening in the technology world or that. It's just like, you know, now I feel like it is more, you know, seeing even in these lovely Jersey City streets, you know, those little robots that are delivering Uber Eats like orders and all that. Like I I have not seen those until you know I started doing my uh recording sessions, you know, in like in like in like the new studio. And um, so I with the state of AI, right? What are what are just like your general feelings with it because of your background in technology and realizing how fast things things can change?

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Like I actually you asking me uh what feelings I have. I'm trying to have no feelings because because feelings consoles man's emotions and those. You know, I'm trying to get to like even though that I work with technology and not try to really try to think too much about it, it's like you think about like politics and sport, it's like it's happening. It's just like you know, just be aware of it. There's it's it's not true, everything they said.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, that you gotta just like just go with the flow of it, and then like whatever, whatever. When comes out what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

I'm sure when the when people is talking about like everybody's talking about the same thing, it's a lie. You know, you know what I mean? Because like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

And then uh for the personal development side of things, right? Um, you mentioned that the important values for you were clarity, discipline, and taking care of yourself. Uh do you mind just elaborating further on that? Or do you think it ties in with like it mostly ties in with what you've already spoken about from just like the like the meditation practice and just you know living living a sober lifestyle?

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, living a sober life is it's kinda feel weird to talk about it because you hear so much of all this in the internet, but like um it it it comes from your conscious. Then like you start like, for example, like start my sober life cutting alcohol, cutting drugs, and then I start doing with the food, then I start with doing with the meditation. It it's almost eight years and that it but after like if you keep doing it and you're gonna start feeling a big change in your body with everything. And in like your conscious get to a like a how can I explain this?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So just like a super deep that just like it takes over you.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, like for example, like I've been I've been doing like meditation for like almost eight years, and like after two years I start feeling something different, like and it took me two years to feel done after being clean for two years at that time. So that's why I I still not drinking and being vegan. Because like I I feel that if I I do something against that, that power is gonna go away. You know what I mean? That's that's like that's how I explained. Because sometimes you ask me, Oh, you're not drinking because you're not gonna feel what you feel. Actually, yeah, I'm not gonna feel what I'm gonna feel because what I'm feeling is I feel high all the time. In a good way, obviously. In a good way, but like like for example, like I can't feel the same way that I used to feel when I used to like smoke weed like naturally. It's not like just click, but it's a certain way that I can fix my thinking, my mind, my and my conscious, and get to in a position of in space of my body that I get high anywhere. And that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, and getting those like dopamine rushes in a healthy way. And I feel like that's like the biggest thing because you know it's easy to turn to alcohol, to weed. And nowadays with like the with like the gambling, because we have it right right on our phones, yeah. So it's just like people always chasing chasing that instead of like getting back to the roots and just like you know, like chasing that in a more natural, natural way.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Like also, for example, I I love to go out and dance. I like I love to go out like dance techno at night. And I still like I used to do it when I was in my 20s, and I'm in my 50s high day doing it, but now that I don't drink, I enjoy it more. I don't know, because like I started dancing like from maybe 10 or not when I got to the club later, maybe from 12 to 5 or 6, and I don't stop when and also when you don't drink and you just drink water or something, and you just like your body don't stop. Like people like when you do drug stuff, you can't dance so much and really enjoy it like that. It's crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

And because like it's it's not like a you start to live a boring life. Yeah, it's like it's like you can you like you still can do the things that you were doing prior to it, it just you know, it just it just maybe like it just may look and feel a little a little different.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, for example, like I get high just dancing techno when I it's and it's uh another way of meditation, and and you you your body, you got like sometimes I get like out of body like like experience just dancing, yeah, you know, because you get the beat boom, boom, boom. Imagine that for like four hours, yeah. You get in the different you get in the you get in the different say on concentration, it's like crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Cause even like that type of environment is usually one where people are you know drunk or yeah off of other stuff. Yeah, I mean, but uh I I also do like to dance like uh myself. And even like last year when I was in settings of like, you know, baby showers or going out with like my friends or whatever the case may be, um, I was still I was still dancing as if you know I was still the person that was crushing, you know, like six or seven beers and was dancing. Yeah, I mean like it's just like I was like, I was like, oh wow, like certain things that I thought would literally change and be that much different actually weren't. And most importantly, too, I don't know if I don't know if it's because of like my age or whatever, but like that like that year of being sober also showed me like who the important people really are in my life and who were the people that were just there to just like party. No, also and just like you know, and just like you know, anytime that we got together, we would always be drinking, always be doing this and that. You know what I mean? So like I like I feel like that that also highlighted that. Did do you feel like something similar happened to you as well with that, or it's just more silly?

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Also, I think like most of the people like drink because I think everybody's shy. Because that's the only way for people to talk, if it's have a drink or have the smoke, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I have that liquid courage.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

If you don't have that, like people really like don't talk to you, they're like really like like you know, it's scared of talking to people after you have a drink. Oh my god, you're you're he's your best friend.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 26:17

But like, for example, I love to go to bars and like talk to people and like I enjoy it more now because with the people that drink, because like like I see in different different ways. It's like I really enjoy it. Like sometimes people like because I don't drink, people tell me, oh, you will like people not drinking. No, I love when people drink because I enjoy it more. It is it's har it's bad to say, but the people don't drink and have more control of people that control, you know, and and it's and some people it's dangerous because like people take advantage of that, and that's not good.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, yeah. When it's when it's done in that context, that's what it's like. That's the different conversation, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

So I'm glad that we're not gonna be able to do it. Baby, I just bought your family. Can't drink it.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Now it's all mine. Yeah, absolutely. Uh I did want to uh highlight this. So, your personal model, I'm gonna say it in say it in English, and then you can say it in Spanish because it makes more sense in Spanish than and then we can uh talk about it. So uh your personal model, you have to enter the hole to get out of the hole. Yes. So translate that and then we'll delve into uh why why that's your personal model and just talk about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

It's pretty simple. You have to like uh get into the back experience and and and learn and come out.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Was it in Spanish?

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Say it in Spanish uh entrend in the aguero para salir del agujero. That's right. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And don't be scared of getting to the hole. And because the thing is come out of the hole. Yeah, that's the way you learn, like transformator, like there's so many holes in this world, like there's no end, even like nobody's safe, also. Like, but you when there's something, always try to go to where you scare, you know. That's that's the easy, that's the way you see the universe. Sometimes we go, we go to the easier thing, go to the where it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, like like take that step to go out of your comfort zone. Go to the hole, yeah, something like that. And really, like challenge, challenge yourself. And I always say, like, the best way to start is to go to certain social settings by yourself. Yeah, that'll that'll be like one of the like, oh Andre, or uh, you know, I just like I don't I don't know what it means to get out of my comfort zone. You know what I mean? I was like, okay, well, just start. Like, go go to uh, hey, there's there's a networking event, there's a concert of your favorite artist, and it's like a stand-in room kind of kind of thing, or whatever, like it is, go by yourself and force yourself to you know get out of your comfort zone in that kind of way, or you know, whatever it shows up, because getting like getting out of your comfort zone shows up in many in many different ways.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

There's many, there's many ways, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah. And like I also feel like you know, people, especially in today's day and age, you know, it's just like they want to take the easy route with everything, even if it's like a working out, you know, let me take a take a GLP shot and not work out, or let me take the latest pill to help me lose weight, or okay, I want to pursue this avenue and you barely put any effort in because you wanted stuff to happen instantly. I mean, I also think that it's it's also because we we have everything right at our fingertips.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

And I think that that's that that's the problem. You want to order some groceries?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Boom.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Boom.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Food, groceries, whatever. Like you can literally just order it like off your phone.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

So yeah, I don't really, I don't really like uh it'd be weird. Like, for example, like I grew up like in the 80s and 90s as my teenager life.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

And I think like that's like crazy for people who like, I don't know, wow, that's like yeah, like like if you like and I think I'm like, oh I felt like if if like a time traveler went back into that time period of like the 80s and 90s and was like, guys, there's gonna be a way where you can use your phone to order groceries straight to your door? You would look at the like that phone from back in the day and just be like, this one? Like this one, you know. So I don't know, it's just um it's really interesting. And do you think that that's uh from like an instant gratification and people wanting things to just happen sooner and quicker? Uh, do you think that that's going to get worse?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

No, I don't think it's gonna be worse. It's gonna, I think it's gonna be a revolution, but it's not gonna be worse. It's gonna be I think it's gonna be a revolution, it has to be a revolution or something. I'm not saying like people is gonna go outside in the street with guns and stuff like that, but it's gonna be a revolution. It's gonna be like a smart revolution.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

So you okay, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

So, like a revolution in like in like the sense of like I think conscious revolution, because people like even like we say like, oh, like young generation, they're not smart. They're really smart. People like like kids are not drinking, people that's not smoking, and and and they're trying to put like down the new generation, but I don't think so. Like, even with the music, people like, oh, music is not like used to be. And I think like people is not used to because you say you stay home every day in your house. Go go out and go and see what's happening right now in the clubs, and like in New York, or everywhere you go, there's concept everywhere, like there's new music and things like that. Also, that's what I think about like music, like Santa Cesar, like, oh, music is not like used to, because you stay home and you're not going out and check what's happening right now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

I like that. Yeah, I like that, I like that take and the idea of like a revolution happening with that. I would definitely be on that front as well, because like I'm and I feel like it's because of how I grew up because since I was uh since I'm a 90s baby, I was born in '96. I was when I was a kid, I was in between that like digital transformation age like we know it now. While still like I still remember VHS tapes and you know, like and and and all that stuff, you know, and even prior to having like social media, like prior, like being alive when Facebook wasn't a thing, when Instagram wasn't a thing, when Twitter wasn't a thing. Yeah, you know, so um I just think that it's really interesting from like the revolution, from like a possible like revolution side of things. Did you have uh MySpace? I was way too young. But do you have about that? Um my uh I definitely like I have fan members that definitely had it, and I was aware of it, but I honestly think that my mom probably would have whipped my ass if I uh if I had a MySpace as like a youngster. I think I was uh that was like 2006, I believe. Yeah, so I was like nine or nine or ten, but I I mean I know of people that were like young that like had a MySpace and they actually try to bring it back.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

It's coming back. I think like people thinking think it's launching like at the end of the year or something like that. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

It's gonna have no algorithm, it's gonna be very clean, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

That'd be that'd be interesting. That that'd be a breath of fresh air, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah, because people's gonna experiment so what they're they're gonna see without uh algorithm, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah, and it's just always like developed with stuff like that, even with like um with with with aim, right? Or aol messenger, uh-huh. Aol Messenger. Uh and then when everyone had blackberries, like I just like I like like I remember everyone's like what's your I look at purely of being working on technology.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Actually, like I started working in technology selling Windows 95. I I used to work at like an those stores like Office Store called Okay, you know, Staples.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, Office Depot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

I remember that in the 90s, in the 90s, like I think I was my 20s, 20 something, and uh I used to work selling computers in this store, and I remember when the Windows 95 came out, so and it was like a big big deal, right? Oh yeah, yeah, uh yeah, yeah, the Windows, you know, with the computers, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

So for your so for so for your journey, the one word that you would use to describe it is transformation. Yes, and I really resonate with that because we're always going, I feel like everyone as individuals are always go through different seasons of transformation and growth and evolution, and it never looks like one singular thing that transformed you. It's like it's it's life happening, and as you live life, you you are going to learn and grow from it. Well, you're supposed to, obviously. So uh why do you feel that the word uh trans transformation best describes your personal journey?

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Transformation is I think it's because like it's it means also don't stop, keep always moving, keep always doing different things, like always have a project, have like a like motif, you know. So if you don't transformate, you die. You know what I mean? People like they don't transform, they don't have a moment of transformation never, you know. So it's like you always have to like keep moving and keep transformating. You have to find all those holes, you know, to get into the hole to get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

You gotta find the holes you can get out of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because this is heaven and hell, but it depends on you how you wanna live. You're gonna live on heaven, you're gonna but you need both, you know. You you need a little bit of darkness on the light, also you need like a light on the darkness. It depends where you wanna live. It doesn't matter if you want to live on the dark, cool. If you're gonna live in the light, cool. You know, it depends where you you go. At least you go and keep transformating. Yeah, you know what I mean. I live a lot of years on the dark and I was cool, so it so I have I have no regrets.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, yeah. And that's definitely part of it. Yeah, and what would you for anyone listening? Uh, what's one piece of life advice that you would give them, regardless of age or background or anything?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Okay, this is the one that everybody has. Yeah, um is um keep transforming, like keep being like doing transformation, changing, don't stop. Like make things slow, never rush, because like everything that you do right now is gonna be the language of your future.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I love that. I love that. So uh this is your time to shout out your social media links or where people can find you, file like your work. So the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Okay, um, people can find me at Ulyssespault.com or Ulysses Paul in Instagram. We're gonna have all the uh links down. Also, I have a new project like with musical um Ulysses Corp. It's more like a dream pop you guys, also it's in band camp. So if you go to my Instagram, you can find everything there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Awesome. Awesome. And Herman, thank you so much for your time today and being on the show. And this is yet another reminder that no matter what side of the fence you grew up on, we're more like than we think. Catch you guys next time. Peace. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. If this episode resonated with you, go ahead and follow the podcast so you stay tapped in and show some love with that five-star rating. It really goes a long way so we can continue reaching more people just like yourself. And if you want to see these conversations, pull up on YouTube and check out Middle of the Fence. Appreciate you for tuning in. Time is the most valuable thing we got.